A Comic Genius Who Talked to Dinosaurs and Heard From God
by Rick Marschall
This week marked the 67th anniversary of the debut of Johnny Hart's B.C. comic strip. We will feature an in-depth interview I conducted some years ago with my friend, this unique genius. John, born in 1931, died in 2007.
When B.C. had its debut in the New York Herald-Tribune, my cousin Johnny Wiederecht excitedly told me about it. He was even inspired to draw his own comic strip, which I think he called Moseby's Raiders. Well, through the years many of us were inspired by Johnny Hart -- to emulate him; to see life as he did; to laugh. And laugh.
Johnny
Hart was
the most self-effacing of geniuses. He was
the quiet center of a powerhouse of talented writers and artists; he
directed the fortunes of precious creative properties; he juggled
activities that included
one of the country’s major charity golf events; unknown to his
millions of fans, he served
and ministered
to others as he immersed
himself in spiritual study and growth. And via
B.C.
after
1958 (and 1964 in the case of The
Wizard of Id)
he wrote
some of the funniest material in the comics. Modest about his many
triumphs, he was
as quick with a laugh as with a laugh-line.
laughs
are a large part of what Johnny Hart was
about; he was
very serious about being funny. He is very serious about serving
others, to which his weekly program of teaching Sunday School
at
a local church attested.
But he also had
a funny way of being serious. During conversations
he would
stop, cock his head, and speak a Greek-chorus type of line about the
chat.
He lapsed
into voices – his own alter ego; John Wayne; W. C. Fields. Almost
every sentence was
punctuated with a chuckle.
He
was also serious in funny ways about his interests. A little movie
theater and a professional motion-picture editing studio eventually
gathered dust on dozens and dozens of 16-mm reels of vintage films –
an interest that for John had waned. A drum set sat in one corner of
his two-story studio’s living room, and a piano in another; during
a break in our conversation, I returned from a phone call to find
Johnny playing some Broadway show tunes on the ivories. Most
interesting of all was his library – totally stocked with Bibles,
Bible studies, commentaries, concordances, and Johnny’s voluminous
notebooks on subjects from ancient scriptures to yesterday’s
headlines. In these notebooks were clippings, Biblical passages,
quotations from books and articles, and Johnny’s thoughtful notes.
It was a room worthy of a seminarian – or even a seminary
professor.
His
faith, which permeated B.C. late
in his life, was even ironic in a funny way. When I was his Editor at
Publishers-Hall Syndicate, he was constantly
late with his material. Sometimes (in those pre-Internet days) he
would send in strips, desperately, a day at a time, close to
deadlines. Very often he was penalized for late charges, making
mattes, sending proofs Special Delivery to his papers, etc. His
lifestyle and drinking were the culprits.
When
Johnny became a Christian, his life turned around: sober, clean,
faithful. However, he still
missed deadlines like crazy. Just in a healthier manner.
This
interview was conducted at Johnny’s studio in Nineveh, New York. (I
felt like Jonah, being sent there! Actually, I had caught a plane
from Philadelphia.) We laughed and talked all day, until time came to
go to the airport... and we weren’t anywhere near finished. Johnny
thought a moment, called a limousine service, and arranged for a
driver to take me home – more than four hours! – so we could
first finish laughing, and then finish the interview. Before the
driver whisked me away, in the wee hours, Johnny first packed
sandwiches and snacks, and loaded the car with dozens of B.C.
reprint books, after putting messages to me in them.
The
interview appeared in the second number of the magazine Hogan’s
Alley shortly after I founded
it. It was transcribed by Nancy Marschall and edited by me and
Johnny.
Rick
Marschall: One
of your very earliest gags had B.C. making a sand sculpture of the
Cute
Chick
and then clubbing it to smithereens. Later on the Fat Broad would use
a club to smash the snake. You don’t show that stuff anymore. You
show the aftermath and let the reader fill in.
Johnny
Hart:
Yeah, I used to have her up in the air with her club always beating.
And then after a while I figured probably by now everybody knew! Now
I substitute a panel that says, Wham, wham, wham, wham! I probably
don’t use that gimmick as often as I should.
Marschall:
Sound
effects?
Hart:
Yeah, a lot of times we draw more than we need to draw. It’s always
really classy to let the reader in on it, let him do most of the work
[laughs].
That’s why radio is so much better than television in my
estimation. You can imagine the hero. If you needed a hero, you’d
get an actor with a really nice deep, beautiful voice; and the girl
had a real sweet voice; you could visualize what you want them to
look like.
Marschall:
So
you couldn’t see William Conrad break the back of a horse on
Gunsmoke.
Hart:
[laughs]
See, you have a knack for saying things a little easier than I do.
But, yes, those
horses were safe.
Marschall:
But
that’s what it comes down to in comic strips, isn’t it? The
imagination of the reader? You putting things, what would you say, on
a silver platter just enough to meet them half-way?
Hart:
You have to be really clever to work that out. It all depends on each
individual gag, of course. And there’s something masterful about
being able to initiate what part to let the reader imagine, how much
to show…
This
is good, I’m re-educating myself now! These are things I probably
don’t think about when I’m doing them, and may miss them a lot of
times.
Marschall:
Well,
a lot of it’s instinct, isn’t it?
Hart:
Well, you fall into a pattern of doing: “OK, this is the dialogue
so we do a couple of people talking, a couple of people arguing, and
draw a couple of characters and three balloons, and whatever”…
and
there are probably a lot of things that could be eliminated or
alluded to.
Marschall:
When
you do that – when you show sound effects instead of B.C. bashing
the sand sculpture – has that been a streamlining process, have you
gotten reactions from readers, have you looked back at your old stuff
and figured this would have been funnier if you had done it this way,
have you run out of visual schticks, and you experimented . . .?
Hart:
I’m not sure. What do you mean by “streamlining”?
Marschall:
Well,
you described a panel showing “Wham, wham, wham, wham” sound
effects. You didn’t do it as often during the early years of the
strip. What was the evolution of that?
Hart:
I was tired of drawing her beating up on the snake! I’m not going
to say that the Violence
Police
came to my door – there is no violence in comic strips [laughs]…
Marschall:
They
get up in the next panel, anyway.
Hart:
Sure; they’re malleable.
Marschall:
You
used to have a postmark on your own postage meter that read, “Think
Funny.” Do you still have that?
Hart:
Sure!
Marschall:
You
gave me a tour of the studio and I don’t see a plaque that says
“Think Funny” but obviously you do Think Funny all the time,
distilling things to their funniest aspects.
Hart:
I try to.
The long driveway leading to Johnny Hart's house and studio
was dotted with stand-up characters from the B.C. strip
Marschall:
About
your type of funny: When
B.C. started
in the 1950s, it was hip and sarcastic and clever as its hallmarks.
You’ve done commentary and you’ve even done puns, but the laugh
is the bottom line. I don’t know anyone who analyzes humor like
you. I remember when I was your editor [at Field Newspaper Syndicate]
– not that you needed an editor – you used to talk about
agonizing, maybe not agonizing but spending a lot of time, on what
word to bounce in a balloon because it’s in details like that where
the real humor is.
Hart:
Yes. By bouncing a word, visually, you’re putting in an inflection,
you know, the way a sentence should be if somebody heard it spoken.
And I think a lot of humor depends on inflection, how a person says
something. Certain things you could say as a question, [or]
as a statement.
Marschall:
There
was a kind of humor that was big in the ’50s, not so much anymore.
I don’t know if it was called black humor that early, but it was in
the college papers and beat comedy. Were you seen that way, as part
of that movement, or did you get tarred and maybe not want to be
classified that way?
Hart:
Black humor, did you say? What is that; give me a definition.
Marschall:
Well,
a little sarcastic, a little sardonic, certainly…
Hart:
Yeah, I think I was. If you really look at humor, that’s what most
of it is anyway. Somebody wisecracking at somebody else. Putting them
down. If you look at all the sitcoms, that’s all sitcoms are today.
Things never change. Sardonic, sarcastic humor is always prevalent.
It’s hard to do something funny without being that way. It’s
classier if you didn’t have to resort to it, I think.
Marschall:
Do
you see it as something you have to resort to?
Hart:
No, I just see it as something that everybody does. I probably didn’t
even think about it. It’s not something that I calculated at all.
You just set up your characters for somebody to put them down. It’s
always done, all the time. Most humor relies on that, unless it’s
visual slapstick, some guy falling down a flight of stairs,
mechanical gags...
Marschall:
Chaplin
talked about feelings of superiority in humor; he analyzed slapstick,
and always returned to guys getting kicked in the butt. Al Capp
supposedly said one time that all humor is based on cruelty, meaning
to him that the little guy gets socked in the face; to which Walt
Kelly is supposed to have said that that revealed more about Capp
than it did about humor.
Hart:
[laughs]
That’s great!
Marschall:
But
do you see that kind of thing – as a Them versus Us kind of thing?
Actually, all of your characters get it, everyone puts down each
other...
Hart:
Yeah, I don’t have any favorites! What’s interesting, though, is
that you’re making me think about this thing and it’s something
that I never really think about. Some of my characters, like Curls –
he’s a sarcastic wit, you know, he’s noted for that, being the
Master of Sarcastic Wit – and so when we have really surly gags I
just usually bring him in and let him deliver it. You know, who’s
going to say this? It’s not the kind of thing that B.C. would say;
he’s not really sarcastic – he’s usually the patsy, as a matter
of fact. So we bring Curls in to say it. It’s a funny thing: I
don’t organize or calculate or put humor together like that. I
can’t really describe what I do…
it’s
funny. One of the things that I always sort of pride myself on –
although we’re not supposed to have pride; “Pride goeth before
the fall”! – as an attribute of mine is that my sense of humor,
if anything, was well-rounded and you know how I discovered that?
It’s because everything funny that ever happened to me, or
everything that happened to me, made me laugh. If I fell down the
stairs I’d lay there and laugh.
Marschall:
And
you just reflect that attitude in the strip?
Hart:
Yes.
Marschall:
Is
your method of gag writing to come up with a gag first and then
figure who’s going to play the role that day or do the characters
write the gags from their personalities?
Hart:
The characters a lot of times suggest it; sometimes the characters
sort of write the gags for you. [Pauses
and laughs]
I don’t know what the process is, I can’t explain it to you, but
somehow I know what they’re going to say. One’s going to be
domineering, another one is going to be surly, the other one is going
to be naive…
Marschall:
Will
you do something like that, if perhaps you’re dry…Hart:
I won’t do mechanical things like that. I remember years ago when
we first started gag writing, we used to try to come up with games,
all types of games, for magazine gags, you know. We’d make a list
of types of people, and we’d put a garbage man, a maid, a shoe
salesman, a whole list of people like that on one side and then a
whole list of places, and situations, and so forth on the other side,
and then we’d number them and roll dice. We’d do all kinds of
stuff: We’d come up with a garbage man in a china shop, and try to
figure out a gag. Those things were fun for a few minutes, you know,
but I don’t think anybody ever used them. It was more fun coming up
with that idea! It took the meditative element out of the creative
process.
Marschall:
Tell
me if this is fair about your characters: When you started the strip,
the characters had really, really defined personalities, and quirks,
and it seems that they still have their traits now but they’re not
as strong. It seems that you don’t build as many gags around their
personalities, traits, strong character types as you used to.
Hart:
It’s true. I think that somewhere along the line the Laugh became
more important to me. Right or wrong, that’s what happened. When I
look back, I see it becoming like one-liners – Henny Youngman with
cavemen! Any kind of a joke or gag about anything that we think of,
we manipulate it and put it into a prehistoric situation. But the
bottom line is the laugh, to really make somebody laugh. So I wound
up with my characters being like stand-up comics, but I think that
somehow that the character traits do still show through; a lot of
people still see that business. Their personalities show through
because we think of them that way – you don’t have to carry signs
around saying what they are, but one of the things we did when we
first started out was that Wiley had a fear of water. I don’t know
if that was all that funny in the first place [laughs]
– if you mentioned the word water, he would scream. A couple of
times that was pretty good. But, what’s so funny about that? But
some people do like the fact that, they read the little blurbs up
front [in the reprint books], that says this guy had an enormous fear
of water, and if somebody would come up and say, “What’re
you doing today?” he’d say “Ahhhhhhh!” We did that once and
got a laugh out of it, but there are not all that many gags you can
make out of it. Grog – you know that he can’t talk – so we did
a gag the other day where he said something! Is somebody going to
write me a letter and say, “How come you’ve got him talking?” I
wanted him to talk, I wanted him to say that. So he did!
Marschall:
What
did he say?
Hart:
I don’t remember, I think it was just one word. That’s another
thing – I never remember any gags I do!
Marschall:
Keeps
you fresh?
Hart:
No, it’s just that I’ve got a lousy memory [laughter].
Maybe none of them are that important to me. I remember a few of
them, you know, a few that I think were actually really quite good.
Marschall:
If
that’s the case, do you ever find yourself repeating gags
inadvertently? Has a reader ever sent in a clip saying how you did
such and such 12 years ago, or something?
Hart:
I don’t ever remember a reader doing that, but they probably have.
I know that we’ve caught ourselves doing that. We did a really
funny thing one time – talk about a lapse. We did the same [Wizard
of Id]
gag within a two-month period.
Marschall:
Two
months?!
Hart:
And nobody caught it! [laughs]
Well, see, it wasn’t like we wrote out the gag and then did it and
forgot to throw it away, and then did it again – it wasn’t that
at all. We rethought it up again, you know, and sent it to Brant
[Parker] and Brant did it both times!
Marschall:
He
didn’t notice it either?
Hart:
He usually does; that’s what’s interesting about it. If you send
him anything, he’ll say, “Hey, we did that about five years ago,
I know we did that, I remember doing that,” and we’ll look for it
and usually we’ll find it. But, this one we did twice…
maybe
it wasn’t Brant; maybe it was me; I think it was me; I don’t
think it was him; he’s taller. Yeah, it was me [laughs].
Because it was a short span of time, it was almost word for word.
Marschall:
Dik
Browne told me once that he did the same thing once with a Hagar
gag, not a couple months apart, it was 10 years; and he got awakened
in Sarasota, Florida, pretty early one morning, by some reporter for
a newspaper in the Midwest, who got ahold of his number and called
him at some ungodly hour – ostensibly trying to pin him down on why
he had reused this gag but probably really trying to pat himself of
the back for having caught this! The gag was the same germ; Dik had
just reworked it. And Dik gave the classic answer to that. He said,
“As you go through life, you’ll find that three things repeat
themselves: history; bad sauerkraut; and old cartoonists.”
Hart:
[laughs]
Bad sauerkraut!
Marschall:
Not
only when you grew up, but today, who were your favorite funnymen?
Whose gag construction do you like? Who makes you laugh? Or maybe
shaped your sense of funny? Not necessarily cartoonists; radio
comedians, stand-up comics…
Hart:
Jack Benny, of course, comes immediately to mind. Laurel and Hardy;
and I loved Edgar Bergen, I thought he was great. Jimmy Durante, of
course everybody loved Jimmy Durante. Cartoonists Dick Cavalli and
Johnny Gallagher and Shirvanian I liked. Virgil Partch, of course,
and Tom Henderson. They’re all the big-nose, big-foot guys.
Marschall:
Clyde
Lamb, maybe?
Hart:
Yeah, Clyde Lamb and Chon Day – more sophisticated.
Marschall:
...What
hits you best – drawing style, gag delivery, composition?
Hart:
A combination. Dick Cavalli always comes back to mind. It was
something that he did – people with straight spines, they always
stood there, with their eyes half closed, they weren’t haughty or
anything, and their mouths were open and they had a kind of squinted
look… how
would you describe that sort of expression? A little non-caring…
Marschall:
Insouciant?
A little bit detached?
Hart:
Yes! That is what it was. And then they just announced these
captions. That was always a look that I really loved.
Marschall:
I
always wondered who was the first to do that. Was it Cavalli? Or
Zeis? When I was growing up everyone who drew magazine gags seemed to
draw expressions like that…
Hart:
There was one guy who used to draw characters with their mouths open
like they were always screaming. Remember? That used to infuriate me.
The guy is just saying something, but… is that a bowling ball or a
mouth? I don’t remember that cartoonist, or if he’s still around,
but I’ve got a suggestion for him.
Marschall:
Close
the mouth, open the eyes…
Hart:
Leave the eyes closed, if you want. The mouth should do it.
Marschall:
How
about newspaper strips when you were growing up? Did you read the
Sunday funnies? Was it more gag cartoonists that turned you on, than
newspaper-strip artists or comic book artists?
Hart:
My favorite comic strip was Dick
Tracy,
because of all the bizarre characters. Dick
Tracy
was really a good strip, you know? I don’t think it was well-drawn,
and I knew that when I was a kid! But there was just some kind of
magic about Dick
Tracy.
It kept you in it, you know? And it just moved you around and you
followed all this good stuff it had bizarre things… the same way
that Herriman invented backgrounds, Gould invented unbelievable
characters!
Actually,
my favorite character, I think, was Fearless Fosdick! [laughs]
You know Al Capp’s Fearless Fosdick? That was one of my favorite
things I ever saw in the comics; it was such a great parody. I always
remember this one where Fearless Fosdick runs down the alley, and
these gangsters are after him. He jumps in a garbage can. And this
big, black limo comes by with machine guns firing, and in the end the
garbage can, it’s just like a sieve with 5,000 holes. The lid lifts
off, you know, and Fosdick steps out unscathed. He says, “Had to do
some mighty fancy dodging there.”
Marschall:
Or
when he got shot full of holes, he’d go back to the station house
and they’d dock his pay for ruining his uniform. He wouldn’t get
paid for three weeks until he paid for the hat... So, you did read
all the Sunday funnies?
Hart:
I liked Skippy,
and Napoleon,
the dog strip. And Smokey
Stover.
Who couldn’t like Smokey
Stover?
I don’t think that I liked the gags in it so much; I didn’t think
that they were really that funny. But just the way everything was
done and all those labels…
the
stuff in the backgrounds.
Marschall:
OK.
we’re back in your childhood, so let me ask you about your
background. You’ve always lived in this part of the country, right?
Hart:
Yes.
Marschall:
Born
when and where?
Hart:
Born in Endicott, New York, in 1931.
Marschall:
This
was like a factory town, a big shoe center, I believe?
Hart:
The town was put together by the Endicott Johnson Shoe Company. One
day – Once Upon A Time – George F. Johnson came over here and he
founded this shoe company. He built most of the homes in the town; he
provided most of the jobs...it
was rather, I don’t know if it was true socialism or not, but they
had their own medical plan, and built all of the homes, and although
my father didn’t work – yes, he did too, he worked for Endicott
Johnson at one time, and we lived in one of the homes: EJ Houses, we
called them. And so did my
assistant
Jack Caprio; he lived in one.
Marschall:
Did
your father move to this area? Or did your grandparents . . .
Hart:
Yeah, my dad’s father moved here from Pennsylvania. My mom came
from Wilkes-Barre or somewhere down there. My grandmother worked at
Endicott Johnson. She worked at their cafeteria.
Marschall:
What’s
your family’s background?
Hart:
I think it’s Irish and German – Pennsylvania Dutch.
Marschall:
As
far as you know, was anyone going back a writer or artist? Is that
anywhere in your lineage?
Hart:
No.
Marschall:
So,
you’re the white sheep of the family? You said that your father
worked for Johnson for a while...
Hart:
I think he worked at that cafeteria, too, and during the Depression,
he was laid off, or got fired – he probably did something wrong
[laughs].
I don’t remember those days, I didn’t even know what he did, I
didn’t even know it when he was laid off. He was out looking for
work, and I thought he was going to work every day! I wasn’t paying
attention. We weren’t that well-off, but my family never let me
know that, that’s the kind of people they were. I know that he
worked as a volunteer fireman for a while and then he finally got a
job with the fire department. He wound up becoming captain of the
fire department, which was his last rank before he died.
Marschall:
I
read about a fire in your studio once… he came in and he injured
himself, didn’t he?
Hart:
Yes. Sometimes I stayed there overnight, you know, if I were working
late, sometimes I’d sack out there and wouldn’t go home; I’d go
home in the morning for breakfast. It was about a mile away from
home. Anyway, he didn’t know whether I was in there or not, he
thought I might be up there sleeping. And he couldn’t get the door
open, he couldn’t figure out why it was locked, so he put his fist
through the window, and he cut himself. I went up there the next day
and there was blood all over the walls and going up the stairs, you
know, and we almost lost him in that thing because it was so full of
smoke. He went in back and was feeling around the room where the
couch was – it opened to be a bed – and he was yelling for me and
all that, and he was almost overcome by smoke. He got lost and then
couldn’t find his way out. It was sort of a labyrinth; there was a
room and a hallway and then another room and a big open room. Anyway,
he finally got out and he was OK.
It
was really wonderful to me because, you know, like all kids, you
wonder whether your father really loves you all that much, because
he’s always slapping you in the head. My dad’s favorite
expression to me was, “Why, you dumb bastard!” Another thing he
used to do was he’d lift his arm over the back of his head like he
was going to hit me, and of course I’d duck all over the place. Or
he’d say, “Why you…” and then as I’d go walking by –
slinking by – he’d cuff me in the back of the head, Bink! That’s
why my hair stands up there.
Marschall:
You
weren’t there in the fire, so you don’t know whether he was
calling “Johnny, Johnny” or “You dumb bastard, you dumb
bastard.”
Hart:
I slept through the whole thing.
Marschall:
You
were there?
Hart:
No, I’m just kidding. I was home. Another great thing that he did –
he knew the room that all of my originals were in. It was a little,
small room, 8 by 10. And I built shelves in there to keep all the
originals, and he knew what room it was and told the firemen not to
put any hoses in that room because there wasn’t any smoke coming
out, and it was mostly fire coming from another part of the building,
the front where I slept! So he saved all those originals; a lot of
damage would have been done. Because usually what they do is just
fill all the rooms with a lot of water. So the originals today would
be strange looking… but probably worth a lot more!
Marschall:
Probably
so.
Hart:
Hmmm…
I’m
going to put water all over them. Now change the transcript, and I’ll
go upstairs… But it’s a funny thing; we had them stacked and
where the stacks were offset there were brown stains around the
edges. I still find originals like that, with smelly stains.
Marschall:
You
can still smell it now? Like a sausage?
Hart:
If you walk into the room where those originals are, you could still
smell the smoke.
Marschall:
How
early did you want to draw? Did your dad encourage that?
Hart:
Yeah, he always encouraged that. His way of doing that was to not
mess with it. I found out at one point that everything I wanted to do
just involved drawing. He was always saying, “When are you going to
get a job?” I was working at this job at what we called a pig
stand. Now you could say that to anybody in this town and they’d
say “Yes...” There was a place here called Grover’s Pig Stand
and they made the greatest pork barbecue, they had a special recipe
for it and it was all shredded, soaked in a special secret sauce. It
wasn’t exactly a chain but there was one in each city –
Binghamton, Endicott, Johnson City, they call them the Triple Cities
– anyway, that’s where I used to work: I used to wrap pigs. I
used to take the pigs out and put them in the buns and wrap them up
and stick a toothpick through them. It was a drive-in type of place.
We’d go out to the cars and slap a tray on the cars; one of those
places. I was working there when I got out of high school from 5:00
every night till 2:00 in the morning. And I was making $20 a week.
Which was cool, because I was working – “See, Dad, I’ve got a
job.” “My son? Yeah, he’s got a job, he wraps pigs.” I didn’t
really like that job much, so I got this bright idea. There was a guy
in town, Tom Lawless, who did sign painting and window-dressing
displays. And I thought, I’m going to ask him for a job even if I
have to offer to work for him for nothing. So I could learn. This guy
was fantastic. I figured my dad would go along with me, even working
for nothing, if I was learning art.
It’s
funny how God works...
I
never was the sign painter that he was. He was offered a job by Lord
& Taylor, he had a great style for sign painting. He was really
class. And window displays: he just knew how to drape everything, use
colors, you know; he was a genius. Anyway, I wanted to see him and I
asked how do you get up to this place? I was told, There’s a door
and some back stairs and you go up into the hallway. So I went up the
back stairs and I come into this little office and there’s this guy
sitting there...and
it’s Brant Parker.
Marschall:
Is
that right?
Hart:
Brant said he was leaving there, but anyway the guy I was looking for
was Tom Lawless. I said I’d be willing to work for nothing, if he
could teach me sign painting and all the stuff. And he said, “Well,
I could use somebody like that.” He took me on and he started me
out at $45 a week – a nice little jump from $20! But before that –
and that’s what I was leading up to – before that I knew that
everything was cool with my dad, because I went to him personally and
said, “Dad, I see an opportunity to get into the art field.” I
really wanted to get out of the pig stand. Somewhere in between
there, maybe it was before that, I used to hawk popcorn at a drive-in
theater.
Marschall:
A
barker?
Hart:
Amongst the cars. I got to see some really good stuff hawking
popcorn. “Knock, knock! Popcorn!” “Get out of here, you...!”
One night, there was a Marilyn Monroe movie, she just had a bit part
in it. There was this one part where she comes in a door and she’s
standing in this door blowing smoke. I had this thing timed and I
figured the whole thing out – the distance between the projection
room and how many steps and all; I had it all rehearsed. And this one
night, I was out there hawking popcorn and I waited until the time
when she was about to come in the door, and she leans there –
“Hiiiiii,” you know, and I went over and I got set, looking all
around, over my shoulder like I’m going to pull off a bank job. I
crouched down under the projection shaft of light, and then walked
out to my position. Marilyn Monroe walks through the door and she’s
standing there in the doorway and I raise up and I reach up with both
hands, these two hands on the screen, one on each breast, and I’m
going like this, you know? Manipulating my fingers… and then I ran
like a scalded dog, you know, and I used to be really fast! My dad
got a call about that...
Marschall:
Did
he have a sense of humor about things like that? What kind of a sense
of humor did he have?
Hart:
He was, I guess, not emotional, he never said much. A pretty plain
dude. He had a good sense of humor, in his own way. He loved to do
practical jokes on his firehouse cronies. It was always a kind of
surly sense of humor; that’s where I get that from. And my mom was
a person who laughed at everything. Everything was funny. She was
just a happy, silly broad, you know. Mom and I were really close and
she laughed at everything I did and we really had a lot of fun
together.
Marschall:
Were
you a class clown?
Hart:
A little bit. Like anybody, I liked to be recognized and laughed at,
or say something funny. I didn’t like to be laughed at, unless I
wanted them to laugh at me. Yeah, I used to do silly things, funny
things. Probably a lot of it physical. One day my mother said to me –
they had a lot of friends over to the house that night and the next
morning from down at the bottom of the stairs she yells up to me,
“Guess what your dad did last night?” I said, “What?” And she
said, “Did you hear Dad come through your bedroom last night?” I
said, “No,” because I slept in a room where the attic stairway
went up through my room. And I said, “Why?” And she said, “He
sneaked up through your room, went up to the attic and got all of
your drawings and brought them down here and showed them around to
everybody.” I said, “Really?” That really touched me.
Marschall:
Yeah,
he was bragging about you.
Hart:
There had been no sign of anything like that. He was one of those
John Wayne/Wallace Beery types – “Ahh, hell, that don’t mean
nothing to me” – one of those kind: a soft-hearted guy who
doesn’t want anybody to know it. That’s the kind of guy my dad
was. Another time the same thing happened. I threw a fit, one time,
over something. Dad gave me some money to go to the movie, and I
asked for money to get some popcorn, too. And he says “No, you
don’t need any damn popcorn.” And I said, “OK,” you know, but
the next day I wanted some money to do something, to go buy some
candy or something, and the same thing.
Now,
this was the time when times were tough. But he never let on, and I
got mad and I went storming up to my room and I hear my mother’s
voice – she was always talking to me from the foot of the stairs;
it was her platform! – and she says, “John, do you remember
yesterday when you wanted money to go to the movie?” And I said,
“Yeah.” She says, “And you wanted extra money for popcorn and
your dad wouldn’t give it to you?” And I said, “Yeah, it’s
just like him.” And she said, “Do you know why he didn’t give
it to you?” And I said, “No, why?” “Because that was the last
dime that he had until next payday.” It only cost a dime to go to
the movies then. And I just started sobbing in my pillow.
Marschall:
Gee.
You had laughter in your household and I’m wondering: do you ever
think that the stuff you do or the type of humor you have would make
your dad laugh or make your mom laugh? Do you ever have that desire
to please them, maybe subconsciously? Do you ever think about that?
Hart:
Once in a while. I know on occasion I’ve even said so. I always
called my mother “Muddy.” I think it came from Red Skelton, his
baby-talk stuff. Instead of Mother I’d call her Muddy. Then
everybody called her that. I say, “I wish Muddy was still around;
this would bust her up.” You know, all that stuff is inside of you.
I’m
not a person that thinks a whole lot about things like
that...whatever
happens to me in my mind and comes out on a piece of paper is just an
accumulation of all those things that brought me to this place for
that moment. I never have been totally conscious of how.
Johnny Hart reading Scripture, as was his wont in later years of his career.
The Johnny Hart interview will continue in a near post of Yesterday's Papers.